The show Without Spinning hosted the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Nikos Anastasiadis, on the night of January 27th. He spoke, among other things, about the upcoming Presidential Elections and the protagonists of Pindar so far, but also about the former Minister of Health, George Pamporidis, who is also flirting with the possibility of candidacy. Nikos Anastasiadis, among other things, admits that he did not have sufficient supervision of the investment program, while he also analyzes the consolidated situation that prevails today in the Cyprus issue. He also responds to accusations of bilingualism at the solution base while explaining exactly what happened in the East Med shipwreck.
Introductory, the President said that in this interview he is given an opportunity to answer a series of questions, especially in these critical hours that concern either the Cyprus issue or other issues.
Internal DISY and Presidential
Initially, Nikos Anastasiadis was asked about DISY's internal party affairs and the situation that prevails in view of the Presidential elections. "DISY has taken over half of my life. I have been serving this group since 1978, so you can count on my passion and love for this group. I was one of those who contributed to both cohesion and electoral success. I am concerned with what is recorded. But what always prevailed was compliance with the rules of operation of the party. Our statute was pioneering, it is one of the most modern statutes with the first and most important emphasis on absolute democracy.
No one who loves this faction can violate the statute, the rules of operation of the party. It's the only way to maintain unity. "To express opinions, to follow voting procedures and the result to be respected", he said.
Averoff - Christodoulidis
Asked to comment on whether he conveyed his concerns to the former Foreign Minister, Nikos Christodoulidis, he said that for him DISY is something more than his home. "My love for the party dictated that I advise those who may be interested, what the party dictates.
I repeatedly advised a capable and dedicated collaborator (ss Nikos Christodoulidis), that there was no other choice than to follow the course provided by the party's statutes ". He added that he had a joint meeting with the President of the party and Mr. Christodoulidis. "Questions were asked there (during the meeting), answers were given by the President of the party who I believe should satisfy any concerns of Mr. Christodoulidis. It is his right, he is a free man to decide that he can serve noble ambitions. At the same time, love for the party and the world of the party should be taken into account. "No one should in any way contribute to a rift within the party."
"Despite what is being said, the whole course of governance for 10 years has given and gives the opportunity through collaborations, to continue a governance that guarantees stability, progress, the implementation of a long-term plan which will be my legacy." "Noble personal ambitions that are permissible are put above the good", he added. Asked to answer for what he will choose, the PD said succinctly "my party". "I will fully respect the procedures provided by my party. The party, based on the procedures, elected its President, Mr. Averof Neophytou ".
The President added: "I try my best to avoid what we experienced in 2003 when a well-known collaborator of Glafkos Clerides, Alekos Markidis, decided that he should claim the Presidency as an independent. I will not stop trying even now. I am in constant contact with the President of the party for this but also with those who I believe can influence situations ".
The President clarified that on March 12 he will be present at the DISY Political Congress in his capacity as a party official and not as President.
Asked if he would be involved in the election campaign, he said that he would try in every way not to involve the independence that the PD owes to observe by expressing where and where the effort for the success of the party is.
The case of Pamporidis and the flirtation with AKEL
The President was also asked about the case of former Minister George Pamporidis. "I am not going to comment on what Mr. Pamporidis may have said either about the party but about the Government. "He was a good Minister of Health, decisive in the implementation of my announcements but also in my decision for GESS", said Nikos Anastasiadis. "I had decided that what the majority wanted, for GESS this should be implemented. I gave the Minister as much support as he needed. But if the President did not decide to implement the decision and if he did not show the determination that I showed, none of the Ministers could have achieved it. "I believe in Mr. Pamporidis for his handling, for his determination, but many times it is good for modesty to distinguish us all", he noted.
"Another element that wrongs itself, because it shows an inconsistency, is that Mr. Pamporidis could still be Minister today, if I satisfied his request to go Minister of Commerce because he wanted to go there after the end of his first term ( s.s Commerce) or as Minister of Defense. I said that if you want to continue to remain in the Government, you will remain in the position you served with full consistency because I do not experiment by putting one Minister in another Ministry. He did not accept the result that he is not in the Government now. "Let Mr. Pamporidis not wrong himself", said the President.
Visits to areas with Ministers for election campaign?
President Anastasiadis was asked if his visits with Ministers in various cities are pre-election or not. He answered that it is from 2013 that he never stopped being close to the world. "In 2015, when we overcame bankruptcy, we were able to announce projects and I was even closer to the world. "A similar campaign took place in 2017 and beyond," he said.
Cypriot
Appointment of Kasoulidis
Introductory, the President was asked about the appointment of Kasoulidis and what he said about the country's foreign policy. He clarified that Mr. Kasoulidis said that the foreign policy is the same because it is none other than the policy of the PD. "The PD is the same and the President is always in consultation with Ministers for a policy that they will follow. However, the President has the first and the last word. Therefore, Mr. Kasoulidis did not say anything wrong ".
Among other things, referring to the country's foreign policy, the President referred to the significant improvement of the Republic's relations with the United States, but without harming our relations with the Russian Republic or with other friends.
The Annan plan
Asked about the characterization given to him as a "neo-Nazi" due to his stance on the Annan plan and how he will leave the government, if he will leave Cyprus one step before the division, as AKEL says, he initially said that it is the most painful to see a vision collapse.
"My vision was to see or be the one who could find a solution of reunification, evolution and functionality. I never regretted saying yes. When 76% reject a Plan, however, you can not ignore their objections. You can not ignore the fact that if such solutions were brought before the people again, they would be accepted.
"What I tried was to see how it was possible to deal with the concerns of the Turkish Cypriots, which we faced with a series of concessions, but at the same time not to ignore the concerns of the Greek Cypriots as they had been expressed."
The President referred to the 2005 visit to Ankara where there were other mentalities. "Then a poll was conducted to see what were the reasons that led the vast majority of the E / K side to say no to the Annan Plan. Among other things was the insecurity, the functionality. The phrase of the late Tassos Papadopoulos, "I did not take over a state to hand over a community" was deeply ingrained in the mind of each E / C, resulting in concern, if the state is not functional, what will we become next?
"When I was elected, I set a goal to create prospects that would improve the Annan Plan, the guarantees would be abolished, the occupying troops would be able to withdraw. "In this context, we achieved the joint statement of the 14th, which laid the essential foundations for preventing unacceptable claims by the Turkish side."
"After Mr. Eroglou, I was lucky to have Mr. Akinci as an interlocutor. Despite what Mr. Akinci may have said against me from time to time, I will never follow a path of mutual accusations. I will never say that Akinci did not have good intentions. But I can not say that unfortunately while we had achieved most convergences later there were setbacks. "Here the President referred to the influence of Turkey."
He recalled that he proposed a joint conference to inform the people.
AKEL accusations of bilingualism
"I wonder who recorded the setbacks," he told AKEL, only to be asked later if he was the one who said the phrase "we will say no to cement the Yes." Talat? If the solution to the Cyprus problem was so easy, why did they not solve it in their day? "Because they did not take advantage of their interlocutor, who was also considered a progressive like-minded person and had the opportunity to improve the provisions of the Annan Plan." "The reasons remained the same, the Turkish interventions and the pressure on Mr. Talat," he added.
Answer for mutations
"I am not leaving the basis for a solution to the Cyprus problem, the ICC. The evolution of KD into a Biconical Bicommunal. "It's not easy," he said.
Regarding the issue of decentralization of powers, I first submitted it in April 2010 during Christofias, in contrast to what we said, that we wanted a strong central government.
However, this claim by Turkey that political equality should be interpreted with a positive vote in all decisions, was by nature one community to have supremacy over the other. "" It was the first element that made the state not functional ", he added.
The proposal of the '60s and the two states
"I said come with the heresy that we would reach a strategic agreement on the 6 Guterres points plus the other convergences. "They would participate in the evolution of the Republic of Cyprus ... where is the fault", he wondered. He added that the Secretary General himself told us to bring some ideas to break the deadlocks.
"I was not referring to a return to a single state ... I would be out of touch with the fact that once they are fully established they will accept us to go to the single state."
He went on to say that "they said that I spoke about two states. This was a misunderstanding of decentralization. In my conversation with Mr. Tsavousoglou, I said explicitly: The two states will never be accepted by either the international community or the EU. These are recorded, recorded. And from him but also from me. What may have been misunderstood was decentralization with a kind of confederation or a confederal system, but which required two states.
"Nothing like that has ever been said," he said. He added: "We have said that we can see how we can create conditions for the strengthening of the two states, the preservation of power in the center, some other responsibilities under the central government and other responsibilities to be transferred so as to prevent a positive vote."
Clarifying the misinterpretation and whether the Archbishop also misinterpreted what he said, the President said that if the Archbishop is ever asked, he will confirm it. "I never talked about two states," he repeated.
The Turkish claims for two states
Regarding the accusations he receives from the opposition, that the consolidation of accomplices leads us to the two states, accusations that are launched by the opposition, the President said that "in the ranks of the party (opposition) there are reputable Turkologists who make an analysis, they will see that Turkey's claim for two states or division is not an invention of Crans Montana and henceforth.
"Not to go to 1956, to go to the recent events after 1963 when they proclaimed the federal state or when later in 1983 they proclaimed the TRNC. The intention was given. The participation in a dialogue with a total of 7 presidents, others of the hard line and others such as Vassilios, Clerides, Christofias who belonged to the school of finding a solution. "A solution was not reached because the goal was simply through Turkey's demands through the Turkish Cypriots how to achieve the initial goal," he said.
Regarding the inaction since 2017. "The Secretary General had suggested a prominent Frenchman before appointing Ms. Lut. Turkey rejected him. Mrs. Luth was suggested, they let time pass to tell us that it was accepted. We agreed with Mr. Akindzi. June 2018 and September we agreed on the parameters, Turkey disagreed and rejected it. We went to Berlin and had a joint announcement. Turkey has said it will not move forward. "Brexit found reasons, Turkish elections and hence the dialogue did not resume."
"At some point, Akinci was forced to say that there would be no dialogue before the elections in Turkey," he said.
The next steps to remove the deadlock
Asked to answer what his next steps will be to remove the impasse, he said that some people think that the Cyprus issue has been born now or is getting worse now. "The invasion took place in 1974 with the ultimate goal of implementing Ankara's plans. Of course the betrayal of the junta and the fools who followed them gave rise to. He then took a brief look at the events that prove, as he said, Turkey's vision for Cyprus and stressed that we must make a proper analysis of the events. "
"We are not militarily able to enter an arms race with Turkey. It would probably be the biggest stigma of insanity. We chose the dialogue. For days DISY we joined the EU ".
"We are trying to mobilize factors that can influence Turkey to comply. "What initiatives should I have taken and I did not take?", Said the President.
"They tell me to go to a dialogue. Go to the dialogue under Mr. Tatar's terms? Accept that I must first acknowledge his independence and then talk to what? For the good relations between the two countries? That is what Mr Tatar is asking for.
The tragedy is that we are a small country. Small countries choose the strongest. This is the bad fate of Cyprus or, if you like, the geography. "Regarding the attitude of the Secretary General towards the impasse, Mr. Anastasiadis wondered if the Secretary General does not see the violations of the resolutions by Turkey. "Does anyone need to tell the Secretary General how the facts are in order to capture them in a report? "I say it in good faith, but with this practice, it encourages the other side that what it promotes may also be accepted," he noted.
"Compromises are being made, but squaring the circle is impossible," the President underlined.
Take it and give it to the MOE
"The convergence we achieved, he wondered, in a pile of issues was why we were uncompromising or because we made concessions. And they accused us of making concessions beyond what was allowed. "When the other side (guarantees, rights) made the slightest move."
"My position is that the EU can not get involved in the issues of Libya, Syria, Ukraine in non-European territories and claim a role of resolution while for a European state to remain far away. "What I am saying without ignoring the UN could be a more active role for the EU in both resolving and removing deadlocks."
"One is to take initiatives. Turkey is looking for a positive agenda. "It should finally be made known to Ankara that it can not want a positive agenda but not implement this in Cyprus," he said.
"The essential MOEs will be used and will contribute to the creation of a new climate. They are not new MOEs but they are coming back. The besieged city of Famagusta under UN administration as provided by the resolutions. They claim to be isolated. To come under the administration of the UN considering that one is the FIR of the Republic but will be considered to accept flights. Also, the port of Famagusta under EU supervision and on the condition that Turkey will lift the embargo on Cypriot-flagged ships. " for all issues with a 6-page text ".
"If my goal was the Presidential (previous) ones, I would not seek the summit in Crans Montana. "What was seen in the public eye, the minutes of the UN for those who used Eide's narrative because he channeled all this mythology, categorically refute any narratives ...", he said.
He added: "I do not want to refer to those who were not present but are writing whole books about how one or the other behaved. It's indifferent to me, but finally, after 4 years of patience, it seems that the collapse of the agreements is due ".
"Recently, Mr. Tsavousoglou said that he would agree for once with the Greek side and said that we never agreed on the abolition of guarantees or the complete withdrawal of all the occupying troops."
East Med and hydrocarbons
It was submitted to the President that for the East Med there were, as the opposition says, many fiestas. The President answered the question by asking to know a fiesta that took place.
"First of all, he said that the talks on EastMed started in 2016 and in 2017 they got more emphasis, especially after the Mavi Marmara conflict and the Israel-Turkey conflict. One thought was that an alternative way of piping had to be found. One thought was to go through Cyprus - Turkey and from there to Europe. "The conflict in Turkey raised the issue of the need to build a pipeline that would pass safely, which did not only concern the natural wealth of the Mediterranean, but also of Eastern Europe."
"In 2017, the report of the European Commission states that studies show that the plan (ie the pipeline) is technically feasible. In those studies it was considered a project of common interest. In 2017. The signatures fell in 2020. It was always under the condition and when it was signed of viability but also of the possibility of construction. Nobody ignored the fact that outside Cyprus there is Mount Eratosthenes which is higher than Troodos. We were familiar with the geological form of the submarine. So there was no triumph, but a goal. "As time went on, there were other thoughts," said the President.
Among other things, the President said that Europe is concerned so as not to be so dependent on Russia, to supply gas from America, which will not be transported by pipelines but by ships. "There is another alternative, the one to Egypt. promotion of f.a. and from Egypt to be channeled in any direction ". Regarding the issue of Turkey here, the President said about Turkey, "let it contribute to the solution of the Cyprus problem and there will be no problem if the pipeline is viable. Let him come to the solution, I make it clear. "Then relations with Europe and other countries in the region will be normalized."
Internal governance
Taking stock, the President said that he would be happier if his proposal, which was the Eurogroup proposal, provided for a "cut of 6.7% from all depositors of all banks up to 100 thousand except for the first 20 thousand, ie 80 thousand would be reduced as well. 9.9% over 100 thousand. If that happened then we would all be in for a rude awakening. This makes me sad. However, even with the second most painful decision, in 2016 it was possible not only to get out of the supervision but also to present growth rates ".
"Since 2015, I announced projects over 1 billion because we were able. It was the first serious crisis of a collapsing state. A second big one is the pandemic. "A curse that struck humanity in 2019. We have succeeded as a result of sound fiscal policy in tackling health and avoiding death," he said.
He added that "the management of the pandemic was such that Cyprus is ranked among the top countries. It is second in the ratio of deaths to the best, with a reduced number of deaths. We stood next to the employees, businessmen, small and medium. We will not leave without measures other major reforms ".
He also said that it is not just to say that you did things, without the cooperation of the parties nothing is achieved. He referred to a number of reforms. The crowning glory of the reforms, as he said, is the GESS, the EU, the abolition of real estate taxes (ENFIA in Greece), local government.
He referred to his proposal to limit the term of office of the President, to create state ministries. Cuts were made that also concern the fight against corruption, he added.
Failed? If so, where?
The President was asked where he thought he had failed and said, "I will be honest. Throughout the supervision of the investment program. What gave rise to saying that the government or Anastasiadis is corrupt. As if Anastasiadis adopted the Christofias program, because it is still in Tassos's time, in order to enrich his law firm, which from the 7.200 nationalities, Anastasiadis's former law firm submitted 62 or 65 applications. Anastasiadis enriched 65 applications from the 7200 naturalizations.
Unfortunately, there were gaps that allowed, as the Nikolatos Commission notes, experts to take advantage of them. "What some people are unaware of is that this program with its vulnerabilities has allowed bankrupt companies not only to service loans and save banks, but also to employ thousands of people." although it may have exposed the country.
"You know, on the occasion of Pandora, I recently sent a 12-page letter to Parliament in which I explained to them. Cyprus became resilient .. Cyprus became resilient and when Milosevic laundered dirty money, the efforts of the Yugoslav people in violation of the UN embargo. I'm talking about Milosevic, I'm talking about the violation of the embargo with the promises that we would send the gunpowder so that we have the tragedy of Marie.
Cyprus has gone through many hardships. " They did not say that I did something similar. They said that it was just the law firm, that it quickly facilitated others ".
The completion of the term of office of Nikos Anastasiadis
The President was asked if he was leaving with a clear conscience or discomfort. He said he was leaving with a clear conscience, not because no mistakes were made during his rule. "I do not feel that I did anything to harm either the attempt to resolve the Cyprus issue or the public. "No one will be found to say that even 1 cent of the President's actions or omissions were squandered."
He also said that the proposal for the use of official vehicles was submitted last week. "When I saw the reactions of parties and people, I agreed with YPOIK and we said that he should withdraw immediately."
Nikos Anastasiadis was asked again this year if he still considers himself immaculate and innocent to say that there is no man who does not make mistakes. He noted that he may have misinterpreted this phrase last year. "There is no man who does not make mistakes. Only Christ is immaculate and undefiled. That is why he came down to save us because we are sinners and we make mistakes. I do not have the infallibility of the Pope. I am a common mortal. I also made mistakes. "The point is whether mistakes were made out of deceit or bad judgment," he said.
"There is no one who is in the spotlight and did not make mistakes," he added.
In the end, he was asked about the closure of the Co-operation and said that some were imprisoned and some continued to plunder the people's economies long before 2014. years. "I do not want to question anyone, but until 2013, the Co-operation flourished and then began to collapse? They focused on the conclusions of Mr. Arestis, who was mandated to investigate from 90 onwards," he said.
Finally he said that his vision is to leave a legacy. As he said, he will try with all his might to create the conditions for the resumption of the dialogue and together with Cyprus tomorrow, what has a scope of implementation until 2027. "Let us give what we owe to this country. I hope that the issues of transparency and the fight against corruption will become much more effective through the adoption of bills. "I have no doubt that all the political forces that want the good of the people will contribute," he concluded.